Bob Rock. The name itself resonates with the seismic shifts in rock music over the past four decades. As a producer, engineer, and musician, Robert Jens Rock, better known as Bob Rock, has carved an indelible mark on the soundscape of heavy metal and rock music. From the raw energy of early recordings to the polished, stadium-filling anthems of multiplatinum albums, Bob Rock’s influence is undeniable. Whether you’re dissecting the sonic architecture of Metallica’s groundbreaking “Black Album,” analyzing the arena-ready sound of Mötley Crüe’s “Dr. Feelgood,” or appreciating the layered textures of The Cult’s “Sonic Temple,” you’re experiencing the sonic craftsmanship of Bob Rock.
Often perceived as a controversial figure, particularly within the fervent Metallica fanbase, Bob Rock’s role extends far beyond simply twirling knobs in a studio. He’s been a mentor, a collaborator, and a catalyst, pushing bands to explore new sonic territories and achieve unprecedented commercial success. While some may point fingers at his involvement in Metallica’s stylistic evolution, particularly during the “Load” and “Reload” era, or debate the merits of the infamous “St. Anger” snare sound, the reality remains: Bob Rock has been a pivotal force in shaping the sound of modern rock. It’s arguable that without Bob Rock’s production prowess, Metallica might not have ascended to the global heights they achieved, nor would they have paved the way for other heavy bands like Pantera, Alice in Chains, and System of a Down to break into the mainstream. Love him or critique him, Bob Rock’s impact is undeniable.
Decibel Magazine seized a rare opportunity to delve into the mind of Bob Rock, exploring his perspectives on gear, the ever-evolving world of music technology, the nuances of audio software, and, of course, his storied collaborations with Metallica. Far from the guarded or one-sided conversations typical of industry figures, this discussion with Bob Rock was a genuine exchange. Engaging, insightful, and brimming with curiosity, Bob Rock posed questions as readily as he answered them, creating an atmosphere more akin to a conversation with fellow music enthusiasts than a formal interview. From his base in Maui, Bob Rock’s passion for music and sound was palpable, revealing the man behind the mixing console.
While pockets of the metal community may playfully (or not so playfully) blame Bob Rock for perceived shifts in Metallica’s sound, a more objective perspective acknowledges his crucial role in the sonic evolution of thrash metal and beyond. Tracks like “Enter Sandman,” “Sad But True,” “The God That Failed,” and “My Friend of Misery,” all hallmarks of the “Black Album,” retain the raw energy of Metallica’s earlier work while introducing a newfound groove, economy, and sonic depth – elements undeniably shaped by Bob Rock’s production approach.
Dive in and explore the world of Bob Rock, a true architect of rock’s most iconic sounds, as he shares his journey and insights with Decibel.
Bob Rock: From Aspiring Musician to Acclaimed Producer
Let’s start at the beginning, Bob. Tell us about Bob Rock, the musician.
Bob Rock: I was born in ’54, so music really hit me in the ’60s. The Beatles were huge. I actually saw The Beatles get off a plane in Winnipeg! They stopped in Winnipeg before heading to New York. My mom took me down to see them wave. Growing up in Winnipeg, it was all about The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Dave Clark Five. But around ’68 or ’69, we moved to Victoria, and suddenly there was no hockey. I was completely taken by the guitar. I was kind of isolated, didn’t have many friends. Music became my world. Then Led Zeppelin arrived. English hard rock. That really ignited everything for me. Even back then, I was fascinated by how records sounded. I remember hitchhiking and getting into a car when “Honky Tonk Woman” came on. There was just something about the sound of it. Same with “All Right Now” by Free. Even “Good Vibrations” sounded incredible. I didn’t fully understand what went into it, but I knew I wanted to be a part of it.
After school, I went to England with a friend, Paul Hyde, who was English. We had this rock star dream. It didn’t quite pan out. I traveled through Europe at 18, but our main goal was to play music. Eventually, we returned home and ended up doing labor jobs. We landed in Vancouver just as the punk scene was starting to explode. I got a job at Little Mountain Studios in ’76. Punk was breaking, and I was learning the ropes of record making. Since I had some recording knowledge, Paul and I recorded a couple of songs, pressed 1,000 copies, and somehow landed a record deal with A&M Records, or IRS Records in the States. This was the beginning of The Payola$.
Throughout those years, I was always juggling both music and recording. I got a gig recording Prism, a Canadian rock band. That led to working with Loverboy, then Honeymoon Suite. Bon Jovi and Aerosmith came into the picture a bit later. With The Payola$, we had a minor hit with “Eyes of a Stranger” in Canada and the US. The Payola$ made a few more records, but my manager at the time, Bruce Allen, suggested I focus on producing. The Payola$ were kind of running their course, so I shifted my focus to production. I produced Kingdom Come, and things really started to take off. But for me, this whole thing – producing, playing guitar, engineering – it’s all intertwined. It’s about making records. That’s my passion.
The Producer’s Path: From Engineer to Visionary
At what point did the switch flip? When did you decide, “I want to be a producer”? It’s a very different lifestyle than being in a touring band.
Bob Rock: It is a different world. Actually, the turning point was Slippery When Wet. I was promised a percentage point because of all the work I did with Bruce Fairbairn. But when Bon Jovi blew up, he went back on his word. Then, when I worked on Permanent Vacation after that, he paid me even less than Slippery. That was the moment I thought, “I’m done. I can do this on my own.”
Looking back at my time as an assistant engineer – I was involved with Bay City Rollers, Dionne Warwick, Bryan Adams, practically anyone who came through Vancouver stopped at Little Mountain – I started feeling like I was stuck. I wasn’t progressing to bigger and better things. So, getting let go from Little Mountain was actually the best thing that could have happened to me. It shaped who I am today. I’m fortunate that people liked the work I did early on. It’s why I’m still working today. I’m a lucky guy. [Laughs]
Can you explain what a “point” is for those outside the music industry?
Bob Rock: Sure. Imagine 100 percent of the record sales revenue. One point would be one percent of that. Typically, record deals were structured like this: 20 points for the band, the producer would get three or four points, and it went from there. I know my American counterparts were making $20-$30,000 per record. I was making $10,000 Canadian, which was about $8,000 American, for my work on Slippery. I hate to talk about it in monetary terms because I believe things happen for a reason. Even though I was angry at the time, I never held it against Bruce [Fairbairn] long-term. I ended up doing New Jersey with Jovi and got paid fairly. It all worked out in the end. That was the last album I engineered for someone else.
Bridging the Gap: Engineer vs. Producer
For those not in the industry, what’s the fundamental difference between an engineer and a producer?
Bob Rock: Especially now, the lines are more blurred. But back then, engineers were primarily responsible for capturing the sound, the technical aspects of recording. That was my role. The producer, at that time, was the overseer, the director, the one guiding the artist. As an engineer, I translated what the band and Bruce [Fairbairn] wanted to hear sonically.
When I transitioned to producing, I realized I was bringing much more than just sonic expertise. I was a musician myself, constantly honing my craft. I knew the technical side of recording, but I wanted to move beyond simply interpreting someone else’s vision. I wanted to inject my own fingerprint, my own creative input. I don’t think I would have become the producer I am today if I hadn’t gone through that engineering phase. Mike Fraser was my assistant throughout my engineering years. Eventually, I realized I couldn’t juggle both engineering and producing as my production workload grew. That’s when I started bringing Mike Fraser in to assist me.
In the ’80s, I developed a certain sonic signature that resonated with people. I kept refining that sound, and it became a core element of my production style. But to be honest, each artist has a unique set of personalities. As a producer, you have to navigate those personalities, manage budgets, timelines, and contribute to songwriting as well. There’s a significant human element to making music, particularly when dealing with artists’ creative dynamics.
The Evolving Role of the Producer
It seems the producer’s role has shifted over time. Perhaps it was once seen as the producer holding the power in the studio.
Bob Rock: Absolutely. In the ’70s, the producer often held significant sway. The producer might dictate, “These are the drums you’re going to play.” But as a musician myself, I realized that approach didn’t always capture the true essence of the band. I formed my own philosophy about what a producer should do. For me, it’s about bringing out the best in the band, highlighting their unique strengths. That’s why “Sonic Temple” doesn’t sound like the “Black Album.” Or why “Dr. Feelgood” is distinct from “Blue Murder.” I will certainly add my own character, my sonic signature, but my primary responsibility is to serve the sound of the band, to amplify their artistic vision. Ultimately, 80% of the album should be the artist, the band themselves. I’m there to help them achieve what they want to achieve.
Sonic Inspiration: Seeking Exemplary Sounds
Which records did you consider sonically exemplary, records that influenced your approach? Jimmy Page and Eddie Kramer achieved incredible things with Led Zeppelin.
Bob Rock: Ever since I started earning money, even when it wasn’t much, I’ve been obsessed with sound. I’m a sound collector. A complete gearhead. Those sonic benchmarks were always in my mind. Drum sounds were often benchmarked against John Bonham’s. Then, there was the other side of the sonic spectrum, what Ken Scott did with Supertramp and David Bowie. The engineers who mentored me were English, so I was trained in those ’70s recording techniques. I can recreate those sounds in my sleep.
But when I started out in Vancouver, I only had a limited set of tools. So, when I heard a record that blew me away, I’d think, “I want to achieve that sound!” I was constantly emulating, experimenting. There was so much discovery back then. Today, so much is pre-programmed, but back then, if you wanted Ken Scott’s drum sound and you weren’t working with Ken Scott, you had to try everything, experiment endlessly to get close.
When SSL (Solid State Logic) consoles emerged, we at Little Mountain were like, “How are they doing that?!” We had read about SSLs, but we didn’t have one yet, right? I didn’t even use bus compression when I mixed Loverboy. I used to mix manually. Compression was done in mastering! How archaic is that? [Laughs] I was competing with guys who had access to compressors and were using them extensively. At Little Mountain, our gear was relatively limited.
Analog vs. Digital: Evolving Gear and Techniques
How does your gear setup now compare to your professional beginnings? Many bands today are drawn to vintage gear, going to great lengths to record with it.
Bob Rock: Oh, yeah! When I started, we had a 16-track Scully tape machine and a Neve console. We had 1081s as well. I grew up on 1081s. When we got a 24-track, things really exploded. You have to understand, gear and audio technology developed in lockstep with how albums were recorded. We went from 16-track to 24-track, then we synched two 24-tracks, and then automation arrived with compression on SSL consoles. All of that dictated how sonics evolved, how we developed record-making techniques. We could achieve sounds with SSL consoles that were simply unattainable with a Neve. The SSL was incredibly well-designed, engineered from an engineer’s perspective. It’s an engineer’s dream console, the SSL.
Throughout my years recording on tape, we were essentially EQ-ing what we had just recorded the moment we played back the tape. Many people, especially those who haven’t worked extensively with tape, might not realize that. We lost a lot of transient response, high-end clarity, and punch. The tape itself would subtly degrade the signal. We always had to compensate by adding a lot of top-end EQ. There were inherent drawbacks to tape.
When digital technology arrived, we started incorporating samples. We’d trigger samples using the AMS (Advanced Music Systems) delay. We could de-tune sounds. That’s how I achieved that deep bottom-end on Dr. Feelgood. It was around the time I transitioned from engineer to producer that these new technologies became available. Suddenly, I could enhance drums in ways that were previously impossible. Then, we moved into fully digital recording.
When we worked on the “Black Album,” we recorded all the drums to tape initially, and then did all the edits digitally. To preserve those edited tapes, we acquired a 24-track Sony digital machine. That Sony was the first digital machine that actually sounded good. The Sony really changed things. It was a significant step forward in audio quality. Then Pro Tools emerged. Initially, Pro Tools didn’t sound great, but it evolved, and eventually, Pro Tools sounded fantastic. That was a major shift. Suddenly, tape became less and less essential. Quickly, tape became almost obsolete in mainstream recording.
Personally, I love digital recording. The transients are preserved with incredible accuracy. I don’t have to rely on EQ as much. The whole analog versus digital debate… There’s a certain warmth, a character to analog. But for me, that analog sound is now readily available as a plug-in, like a UA (Universal Audio) plug-in. I don’t have to fight the limitations of tape anymore. I can create warm, impactful records now. My records are big, fat, and digitally recorded.
Plug-in Powerhouse: Bob Rock’s Digital Toolkit
Speaking of plug-ins, what are some of your go-to plug-ins? I gather you’re a fan of UA’s products.
Bob Rock: Ninety percent of what I use is UA, absolutely. My plug-in list is essentially a digital recreation of the classic gear we’ve been discussing. It’s funny, I own an original EMT 250 reverb unit, and when the UA plug-in version came out, I almost wanted to throw my original out the window! The EMT 250 UA plug-in is pristine – no hiss, no breakdowns. The EMT 140 plate reverb is beautiful. Same with the BX 20 spring reverb, which is notoriously difficult to find in great condition. I’ve never found a truly great original BX 20, but now I have a perfect one in the UA plug-in.
For EQ, I can have 90 channels of 1081s at my fingertips. I’m a lucky guy. [Laughs] I also have some original Trident EQs, the Ken Scott-era stuff. I use the Trident UA plug-ins on everything. Same with the Eventide harmonizer, the 910s. Now, I have a 910 that doesn’t crackle, buzz, or distort. It retains all the character of the original 910 but with a clean signal path. I’m a huge fan of UA.
Embracing Imperfection? Character vs. Flaws
But isn’t that crackle, buzz, those imperfections, part of what makes a record sound… well, like a record? Made by humans, with a certain personality?
Bob Rock: I understand the appeal of character and imperfection. But I’m not talking about the character aspect of those vintage pieces. I’m talking about malfunctions. With the EMT 250, a transistor would sometimes go bad, and it would sound like, “Kkkssshhhh!!!” I can’t use “Kkkssshhhh!!!” [Laughs] The Eventide harmonizer might go, “Uhauhauha!!!” Nobody wants that! [Laughs] That’s what I’m talking about. I’m all for the original harmonizers, the 12-bit ones. There’s a definite sound to them. I still use them now. Same with the Lexicon 224S reverb. Everything I use, whether hardware or software, is because of the sound. If it doesn’t sound good, it doesn’t work for me. I was initially skeptical of plug-ins, but now I use them constantly. I wouldn’t use them if they didn’t sound good.
Metallica’s “Black Album”: A Sonic Breakthrough
Okay, Bob, I’m sure you’ve been waiting for me to ask you a Metallica question, right? Is there a story, perhaps an untold one, from the “Black Album” sessions that you could share? Studio anecdotes, I’m talking about.
Bob Rock: A lot has been said about the “Black Album,” that’s for sure. Okay, when we started mixing, I naturally used the bus compressor on the SSL console. That’s how I got that aggressive, punchy sound. I had a first mix sounding pretty good, and James [Hetfield] came in. He said, “I don’t want any compression on my guitars.” I said, “Well, this is kind of my approach.” He just said, “Nope.”
I had to figure out a solution quickly. I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. Luckily, we were at Hansen Studios, and they had a 6K console, which has three separate busses – A, B, and C – before they all feed into the main bus. SSL had just released their bus compressor as a standalone rack unit. So, I had an idea. I decided to use that SSL bus compressor on the A bus, route James’ guitars to the B bus, and everything else to the C bus. That’s how I ended up mixing the entire record. Otherwise, if I couldn’t have found that workaround, I wouldn’t have been able to do the record the way it needed to be done. It was a complete problem-solving moment. That’s why the guitars on the “Black Album” are so crushing and massive without actually being compressed in the traditional sense. It’s just the raw power of the guitars themselves. They’re in-your-face, absolutely crushing. And the drum compression doesn’t affect James’ guitar sound at all because of the separate bussing.
I had a similar situation with Tommy Lee on “Dr. Feelgood.” He used in-ear monitors live on stage. When we went into the studio, he said, “I need some bottom-end in my headphones.” So, I got some monitors and placed them behind his drum kit. People were saying, “Bob, you can’t do that! It’ll bleed into the mics!” I said, “Well, that’s what he needs to feel comfortable.” So, I put these huge subwoofers behind his kit and fed a little bit of the kick drum into them. He felt great, played amazingly, and the sub-bass actually ended up filling out the room in a really positive way. Now, that’s pretty unconventional. Most engineers wouldn’t do that. But again, it was about finding a workaround, a solution to make the artist comfortable and perform at their best.
Beyond the Black Album: The Metallica Connection
The “Black Album” is unlike anything else in your production discography. What was it about Metallica that sparked your interest? They certainly came from a different musical world than most bands you had produced up to that point.
Bob Rock: Okay, I had bought …And Justice for All. The Cult were opening for Metallica on the Justice tour after Sonic Temple. When the tour came to Vancouver, I went to see Ian [Astbury] and Billy [Duffy] from The Cult. I stayed to watch Metallica. I had heard the Justice record, but live, they sounded so heavy, so immense, so thick and powerful. On the record, that weight, that impact, wasn’t quite there for me. That was my initial thought.
Months later, I heard they were looking for someone to mix their new album. I said, “I don’t want to mix your album, but I’ll produce it.” Someone told me they were a bit taken aback by that. Evidently not too much. A little while later, they came up to Vancouver to play me their new songs on cassette, right? I heard “Sad But True.” And in my mind, I immediately thought, “I can do this! I know how to make this sound massive!” I knew how to translate their live weight and power onto record.
I mean, Flemming [Rasmussen] had his own way of recording the band. That’s pretty much what they were used to. And he did a fantastic job; it worked incredibly well for them. But they said to me, “If you produce this, you gotta do what you do.” So, I told them, “I want you to play in the same room, all at the same time.” They had never recorded that way before. Basically, there was no pre-conceived notion of how Metallica should be recorded. I brought what I knew to the table and did what they asked me to do – to produce them my way. It was quite a change for them.
These guys, they were deeper, more intense than bands I had worked with previously. There were times when I was really listening to James’ lyrics, and I was thinking, “This guy is as good as anyone.” He’s incredibly intense, incredibly deep. I didn’t grow up on Metallica. I just came in to help them make a record. If it were Led Zeppelin asking me to produce them, that would have been a completely different story for me. I’d be so awestruck, so enamored with them, I’m not sure I could have done it effectively. With Metallica, they were just guys to me. I didn’t cater to what people thought they were. I catered to what they wanted to do, what they wanted to achieve sonically. That’s ultimately what a producer is supposed to do.
The Enduring Legacy of the Black Album
The “Black Album” is now over 30 years old. What’s it like knowing you played such a significant role in a record that’s become so iconic? From a sales perspective, it’s not far behind “Hotel California” or “Led Zeppelin IV”.
Bob Rock: I’m incredibly proud of it. It’s a huge part of my life, both professionally and personally. I spent 15 years working with those guys. I couldn’t have asked to work with a better band. It was challenging at times, but it’s often when you’re pushed outside your comfort zone that you create your best work. And clearly, the “Black Album” is some of my best work. It was a collaborative effort, a product of all of us – the band and myself – pushing each other, with no compromises.
Culturally, in the music industry, that’s when Metallica truly broke through to radio airplay. It was the biggest cultural impact record I’ve ever been involved in. It fundamentally changed what was considered acceptable on mainstream radio. I’m very proud of that. I look back on that period fondly. And I continue to be impressed by the artists I’ve worked with since, artists like Michael Bublé and Van Morrison. But I will say, the “Black Album” is the record where everything truly came together, a perfect storm of talent, vision, and sonic execution.
Bob Rock, renowned music producer known for his work with Metallica and other rock legends, in a portrait for Decibel Magazine.
